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	<title>Comments on: Bring on the bigotry</title>
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	<link>http://www.alexmaximo.com/2009/02/bring-on-the-bigotry/</link>
	<description>Discourse, Society, Language, New Media, and I</description>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.alexmaximo.com/2009/02/bring-on-the-bigotry/comment-page-1/#comment-1542</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexmaximo.com/?p=750#comment-1542</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the great insights, Nino.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great insights, Nino.</p>
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		<title>By: Nino Gonzales</title>
		<link>http://www.alexmaximo.com/2009/02/bring-on-the-bigotry/comment-page-1/#comment-1541</link>
		<dc:creator>Nino Gonzales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexmaximo.com/?p=750#comment-1541</guid>
		<description>Hello. Since this issue has cooled down, now may be a good time for an outsider’s point of view. I don’t know if you remember, but my last comment in this blog was in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alexmaximo.com/2007/03/yes-and-we-have-more-jologs-discussions-on-blogs/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;your last post on jologs prior to this issue.&lt;/a&gt; The jologs has sort of been a pedantic interest of mine since I first saw them around six years ago, when I moved to Manila. As I mentioned in that post, I made a “study” on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nino_Gonzales/jologs&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;jologs phenomenon.&lt;/a&gt; It’s supposed to be a parody of a scholarly paper (Wikipedian sense of humor?), but it does make some assertions that are supported by this recent incident. For instance:

&lt;i&gt;1) “Jologs” is an “outgroup,” to use a term from social psychology, created by the educated middle-class of Manila (or what you call the burgis). (“Conyo” is also another outgroup created by the middle-class)&lt;/i&gt;

I said that I got interested in the jologs since I &lt;i&gt;saw&lt;/i&gt; them. I actually did not see them in the first few months after I moved to Manila even though images of the same people entered my retina. I only “saw” them when I sort of acclimatized to my new environment, which happened to be educated middle-class Manila (almost all my friends and acquaintances were college-educated Manilenyos).

I think you mentioned before that jologs is a social construct created by the middle-class. I totally agree. This means the discourse on the jologs tells us more about the middle-class—its creators—than the jologs themselves. A painting tells us more about the painter than the subject of the painting, right? The discourse on the jologs tells us about the aspirations and values of the middle-class: education, security, cleanliness…

And yes, I think you are absolutely right in saying that the Filipino blogosphere (or at least the dominant ones) is burgis, however diverse their views may be. Yet the dominance of the middle-class is not limited to the blogosphere. The middle-class is the narrator of the story of the Philippines—TV, movies, and now blogs (I hesitate to include Filipino literature). I have (or used to have) a non-Manilenyo context, so I would even be more specific and say that the narrator of the Filipino story is the middle-class Manilenyo.

What has brought about the creation of the idea of jologs in the heads of Manilenyos? I think this is the most interesting question about the jologs. I used to think (as I wrote in the study) that this may be unique to Manila because of its position in Filipino society and because Manila or Tagalog culture is inherently hierarchical.

But perhaps my vision may have been clouded by my Cebuano sentiments of “Impertial Manila” and idealization of egalitarianism. If we are to be more objective, it seems that this creation of outgroups and classism (or at least class consciousness) happens in (all?) non-primitive and large societies. The population in Manila got decimated during WWII, leaving just a few families of the old Manila. There has been a constant inflow of immigrants since then (how many people do you know in your generation whose grandparents were born in Manila?) Some did well and got gentrified. Some entered Manila through the bottom and have not made it yet to the middle-class. They used to be called “bakya.” Their sons and daughters, who are still outsiders (that’s literal in many cases), are the jologs.

You are fortunate (and I say this without any sarcasm) to have experienced what it feels like to be in an attack of the outsiders of society (this is really cool if you are interested in the study of class). That must have been how the aristocrats felt as the bourgeoisie of the French Revolution pounded on their palace doors, ready with their guillotines. This must have been the same feeling of the last Spaniards inside intramuros with the Indio Katipuneros outside its walls. I could just imagine the French royalty looking outside with a mix of fear and disdain to those unfashionable commoners.

The comparison with the French and Filipino revolutionaries may not be apt in terms of their motivations (which I suppose are the reordering of society vs. the opportunity to mosh in front of rock bands). But they probably share the same sentiments of being uninvited to the party with no way of being invited. The French bourgeoisie perhaps had enough of always being second rate citizens in spite of their economic gains. The Filipino revolutionaries perhaps had enough of always being second rate citizens because of race. The jologs had enough of walls between them and their favorite bands.

But the comparison with intramuros may be more apt that it may first seem. The conflict was expressed with the attack on the walls, and the solution proposed revolves around adding more walls. The idea that society is divided into those within the walls (intra-muros) and those outside it just seems to be in the DNA of Manilenyo society. I explored this more recently with a more personal essay examining the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipilipinas.org/index.php?title=User:Nino_Gonzales/conyo&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; conyos of Manila.&lt;/a&gt;

There is probably no practical point of this comment (which is getting quite long) except that if Erap runs (and it seems he will), his marketing guys to exploit this sentiment of exclusion by the people outside the walls. And he will most likely win.

Thanks in advance for tolerating my long comment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello. Since this issue has cooled down, now may be a good time for an outsider’s point of view. I don’t know if you remember, but my last comment in this blog was in <a href="http://www.alexmaximo.com/2007/03/yes-and-we-have-more-jologs-discussions-on-blogs/" rel="nofollow">your last post on jologs prior to this issue.</a> The jologs has sort of been a pedantic interest of mine since I first saw them around six years ago, when I moved to Manila. As I mentioned in that post, I made a “study” on the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nino_Gonzales/jologs" rel="nofollow">jologs phenomenon.</a> It’s supposed to be a parody of a scholarly paper (Wikipedian sense of humor?), but it does make some assertions that are supported by this recent incident. For instance:</p>
<p><i>1) “Jologs” is an “outgroup,” to use a term from social psychology, created by the educated middle-class of Manila (or what you call the burgis). (“Conyo” is also another outgroup created by the middle-class)</i></p>
<p>I said that I got interested in the jologs since I <i>saw</i> them. I actually did not see them in the first few months after I moved to Manila even though images of the same people entered my retina. I only “saw” them when I sort of acclimatized to my new environment, which happened to be educated middle-class Manila (almost all my friends and acquaintances were college-educated Manilenyos).</p>
<p>I think you mentioned before that jologs is a social construct created by the middle-class. I totally agree. This means the discourse on the jologs tells us more about the middle-class—its creators—than the jologs themselves. A painting tells us more about the painter than the subject of the painting, right? The discourse on the jologs tells us about the aspirations and values of the middle-class: education, security, cleanliness…</p>
<p>And yes, I think you are absolutely right in saying that the Filipino blogosphere (or at least the dominant ones) is burgis, however diverse their views may be. Yet the dominance of the middle-class is not limited to the blogosphere. The middle-class is the narrator of the story of the Philippines—TV, movies, and now blogs (I hesitate to include Filipino literature). I have (or used to have) a non-Manilenyo context, so I would even be more specific and say that the narrator of the Filipino story is the middle-class Manilenyo.</p>
<p>What has brought about the creation of the idea of jologs in the heads of Manilenyos? I think this is the most interesting question about the jologs. I used to think (as I wrote in the study) that this may be unique to Manila because of its position in Filipino society and because Manila or Tagalog culture is inherently hierarchical.</p>
<p>But perhaps my vision may have been clouded by my Cebuano sentiments of “Impertial Manila” and idealization of egalitarianism. If we are to be more objective, it seems that this creation of outgroups and classism (or at least class consciousness) happens in (all?) non-primitive and large societies. The population in Manila got decimated during WWII, leaving just a few families of the old Manila. There has been a constant inflow of immigrants since then (how many people do you know in your generation whose grandparents were born in Manila?) Some did well and got gentrified. Some entered Manila through the bottom and have not made it yet to the middle-class. They used to be called “bakya.” Their sons and daughters, who are still outsiders (that’s literal in many cases), are the jologs.</p>
<p>You are fortunate (and I say this without any sarcasm) to have experienced what it feels like to be in an attack of the outsiders of society (this is really cool if you are interested in the study of class). That must have been how the aristocrats felt as the bourgeoisie of the French Revolution pounded on their palace doors, ready with their guillotines. This must have been the same feeling of the last Spaniards inside intramuros with the Indio Katipuneros outside its walls. I could just imagine the French royalty looking outside with a mix of fear and disdain to those unfashionable commoners.</p>
<p>The comparison with the French and Filipino revolutionaries may not be apt in terms of their motivations (which I suppose are the reordering of society vs. the opportunity to mosh in front of rock bands). But they probably share the same sentiments of being uninvited to the party with no way of being invited. The French bourgeoisie perhaps had enough of always being second rate citizens in spite of their economic gains. The Filipino revolutionaries perhaps had enough of always being second rate citizens because of race. The jologs had enough of walls between them and their favorite bands.</p>
<p>But the comparison with intramuros may be more apt that it may first seem. The conflict was expressed with the attack on the walls, and the solution proposed revolves around adding more walls. The idea that society is divided into those within the walls (intra-muros) and those outside it just seems to be in the DNA of Manilenyo society. I explored this more recently with a more personal essay examining the <a href="http://en.wikipilipinas.org/index.php?title=User:Nino_Gonzales/conyo" rel="nofollow"> conyos of Manila.</a></p>
<p>There is probably no practical point of this comment (which is getting quite long) except that if Erap runs (and it seems he will), his marketing guys to exploit this sentiment of exclusion by the people outside the walls. And he will most likely win.</p>
<p>Thanks in advance for tolerating my long comment!</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.alexmaximo.com/2009/02/bring-on-the-bigotry/comment-page-1/#comment-1480</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexmaximo.com/?p=750#comment-1480</guid>
		<description>Hi Claro. I do hope that was a joke too! In the light of what happened that joke&#039;s really tasteless. That boy should get his punishment according to law.

Though perhaps this is a wake up call for those responsible for our educational system. Products of our system should be able to act rationally in a civilized society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Claro. I do hope that was a joke too! In the light of what happened that joke&#8217;s really tasteless. That boy should get his punishment according to law.</p>
<p>Though perhaps this is a wake up call for those responsible for our educational system. Products of our system should be able to act rationally in a civilized society.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Claro Margallo</title>
		<link>http://www.alexmaximo.com/2009/02/bring-on-the-bigotry/comment-page-1/#comment-1479</link>
		<dc:creator>Claro Margallo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 15:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexmaximo.com/?p=750#comment-1479</guid>
		<description>Someone made a suggestion (I hope the suggestion is a joke!!!)  that UP should be tolerant, to turn the other cheek and to give a scholarship to whoever threw the stone that cracked the head of Sgt. Montecito.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone made a suggestion (I hope the suggestion is a joke!!!)  that UP should be tolerant, to turn the other cheek and to give a scholarship to whoever threw the stone that cracked the head of Sgt. Montecito.</p>
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